Evaluating the Forums Experience

I will definitely complete the survey, thanks for the chance to comment / suggest.

Thanks! I’m hoping we get some good ideas in the “other” fields that we can use to add to the main body of questions.

The survey exits to the survey provider page, not back to Bonz. Maybe that can be fixed?

Given the very conversational nature of the forums, I’m not sure that any attempt to be more business-centric will actually change the habits of the users.

I’m assuming that “positive” refers to the apparent tone or attitude of the contributor, rather than the content, which may be negative (bad experiences, etc.) but still discussed with a civil tongue. I don’t envy the moderator’s job of trying to sort it all out.

Years ago, the forums hosted some very ugly material, especially in the dungeon (Drama). That, evidently, was handled because we see little of it, today. So, I think the forums are about as good as they can be. The fact that many other sites have abandoned them, or never created them, might work in our favor; one of the things that makes us different and more desirable.

I am very encouraged when I see Mark or other Bonz people jump feet first into a discussion, especially one that is on the “edge.” This is wonderful reassurance to new members that management is in touch; taking complaints or challenges seriously, and demonstrating that you are paying attention. That surely comes at a cost in terms of other responsibilities, yet is the best evidence that you are in touch with your users.

Hope that helps.

It’s called crowd control. You know that you want to stifle us. It’s your actions that are causing the bad blood on the forums. If you didnt try to screw the sellers over the negativity would not have arisen. sorry but I am blunt and this is my honest opinion. If you want to can the forum then just do it. that is where this is all leading to. I have stayed out for the most part so I wouldnt be “slapped”. But the sad thing is; in Poofing the threads you have enabled many to take it public on Facebook, Google, other selling site forums and blogs. That seems to be a large price to pay. It is sad that it has come down to all this. I basically don’t and won’t participate in anything but listing and hoping for sales. I am very soured towards anything else on Bonanza at the present.

@jsgeare: Being both useful AND positive is our utopia. But forums, by their nature, give bad actors the stage to be able to attack Bonanza for any moderation we may need to impose. We’ve spent a lot of time trying to build a toolset that best balances the opportunity to give honest+open feedback and minimizes the demagoguing+ assuming we have the worst intentions.

I’m increasingly not sure how this balance is possible. As @nelliekellie alludes to, the forums are usually where “Bonanza bashing” (as opposed to the honest & constructive feedback we want) usually begins. When we moderate it, then it leaks over to the rest of the web, complete with an already-organized group of users to reinforce the negative opinion. Does Bonanza conspire to suppress its sellers opinions? Those opinions are what have built much of what you see on Bonanza today. If we didn’t listen to feedback, we’d be…some other, less successful site. But the forums as presently constituted allow the most dissatisfied 1% of users to group up, organize and perpetuate the idea that Bonanza censors and doesn’t listen.

Yes, we are obviously far from perfect. And in the process of constantly evolving, we are going to alienate some sellers. But I’m fairly convinced that the level of vitriol we’ve experienced is disproportionate to the malice with which we act, especially given our eagerness to hear reasonable+rational feedback. The forums seem to be the key difference between the well-organized, sophisticated opposition to Bonanza in some corners, vs. the more loosely organized and scattered criticisms of sites that lack forums.

The forums are what made this site unique. Bad, good or ugly, people came to be in them. Letting members tag a post or thread without checking it and suspending people is what drove the smart, helpful people away.When I first came here, I learned so much…now the forums are a ghost town…Re assigning threads so they are not visible for most to see made people leave..get rid of the forums and this site folds. All the backbiting is due to no one actually reading the threads…you need someone who actually checks on the posts…this is so stupid…JMHO

Thanks for bringing this up! Survey Taken

Communication is the key. Imposing sanctions on people who voice their concerns about new enhancements is wrong. The forums are not the problem the problem is a lack of communication to the sellers about new enhancements, leaving us to speculate how they work and how this can affect our business.
I understand the need for new enhancements what I do not understand is why we are not told beforehand and why when we have concerns those concerns are not addressed. Instead, we get sanctions imposed on us.
Is communication between Bonanza and it’s sellers too much to ask?

I think that if your really concerned about new buyers coming into Bonanza and hearing negativity there, why don’t you close the forums from buyers and leave it as a sellers option. The forums are a very, very important part of being a part of this community. If you take the community away from the people…It is going to change the whole reason I came here in the first place.

Going to take the survey now.

Started typing, but CollectibleCorner pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. I do believe it would be a shame to lose accessability to the knowledge base of the seller’s here.

P.S. It really speaks volumes that you are putting this subject out for comment. Kudos!

@keno @txskys4ever @antiquesrgreat Your points about communication are well-taken, and that is certainly something we can aspire to do better.

In that vein, I wonder if any of you have ideas you’d like to share on the most efficient way to communicate our changes and their rationale?

For context, here are the challenges from our end to communicating abundantly:

1) I don’t want to slow down the speed at which we can make changes. Building a successful marketplace is probably one of the hardest businesses you could ever try to build due to “the large moat” (i.e., existing loyal buyer base) that surrounds the old marketplaces. The only weapon we have to fight them with is to try to make our product 10x better than theirs, and that requires moving very fast, and yes, sometimes breaking things (as briefly as possible, with your feedback). We think Bonanza has a realistic shot of being the marketplace that can give the old guard a run for their money… but only if we can continue to move faster than they do… with about 1/1000th the staff and advertising budget. No problemo, right?

2) When we announce features via the blog, it can become “noisy.” That is, it becomes hard to separate the constructive/good/reasonable ideas from the destructive/emotional ones. Both are equally “honest,” and ideally both would be heard, but the negative posts can mean that we have to sink hours or days of our limited time into calming people down. We’d rather spend our time working toward better solutions when something doesn’t work great.

I think the ideal communication tool would be one that let us announce changes (and their rationale) swiftly. It would delve into discussing features constructively (presumably with something like forums). Sort of a cross between the changelist (http://www.bonanza.com/home/changelist) and forums. But with more detail than standard changelist, and with more brevity and constructive mojo than a standard forum. Some site out there must get close to balancing these goals well?

Bill, if you are reading the forums, what you are seeing mostly (besides my big mouth) are the sellers complaining of declining sales and for loosing all their hard work due to all the recent changes.

I’m not seeing people attacking each other or being nasty. YOUR sellers here are hungry and have worked hard to sell here. They promote and tweet endlessly and the results lately are non existent sales. They try to drive traffic here for you to drive that traffic elsewhere.

I know for a fact that many of them feel that Bonanza has sold them out with some of the recent changes. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but the Amazon listings feature is going to put many of the sellers here out of business.

In the short time I’ve been here, my time in the forums, I have not seen anything like what’s going on until just recently. Maybe you should take a look at the reason for this and make the proper adjustments instead of finding a way to stifle us.

This is your site and you are going to do what you want, regardless. But, if you want the support of the people who’s backs you built Bonanza on, then don’t kick them to the street or tell them fables about “a good buyer experience” when they are smart enough to know what it really is about. Even ebay is turning things around and looking to support the sellers there better than they have in the past.

Bill, thanks for the reply.

Maybe there could be a forum added that only sellers can access. It could be a ‘coming soon’ forum.

It could be used to make announcements about a coming feature, tell us how it would work, tell us any possible roadblocks we may run in to, and make it a question and answer forum. Give it the ability to be used before, during, and after launching a new feature.

But tell us about new features BEFORE they go live. Give us a little time to digest what will be added and how it will affect us.

I’m sure that before you guys add anything, you hash it out amoungst yourselves as to the pros and cons. Let us be a part of that or at least share your concerns.

You also commented about how much time a moderator has to spend weeding out the negativity in the forums. Well, if we had answers ahead of time, a lot of that negativity would never see the light of day.

And regarding all the new features, sure we want to keep up with the others, but lately we can’t even catch our breaths before something new hits us.

I think the forums in general and communication from management are two different issues, but they affect each other.
The forums in general really are not bad. The antagonists are few, and sometimes people just have a bad day. Just monitor a little better, tune up the place a little, and take the stress off everyone and most of it will go away.

As far as your (Bill’s) response above with #1 and #2 issues, I think you must remember that while you are building a marketplace you also have customers to be considerate of. We the Sellers are your customers. If you tear down, rebuild, move stuff around, disconnect, reconnect, and everything else that goes with building something, you leave us dizzy, confused, maybe angered, and sometimes damaged. WE the sellers are YOUR customers, and we are in the middle of all the building and rebuilding on a daily basis. We usually cheer you onward, but we must be able to function in the chaos of it all. You could build a marketplace stairway to heaven but if you don’t have the people who would appreciated it the most, the ones who have watched and helped it grow, then I don’t think it will be as full of an accomplishment as it could have been.

In response to your statements above, I honestly think your ‘best weapons’ are your lot of experienced Sellers, not being 10x faster or ahead of everyone else. Help us stay up to date of course, but maybe the goal to be ahead of the game could be adjusted a little bit. My strongest advice, in all respect, is to back up and take a wider view of the situations. And to utilize the experience, knowledge, and contacts that your most valuable assets (sellers) have to offer. As far as the ‘moat of loyal buyers’ at the old marketplaces, they aren’t loyal to those places, they are loyal to either the sellers, or to any place where search and checkout work easily that they can find. Those loyal buyers are the potential customers of the Sellers here, but stuff has to work, and we have to understand how to use it and be able to rely on it.

Good move up above to begin to respond. But the answer is not more questions. Close it to responses, open it for 5 minutes then close it, whatever. Just give us information please. And, warn us beforehand when to duck.

Oy!! I haven’t read each and every comment now – I stopped at Kenoticket’s. (Will read everybody’s else’s tomorrow).
But Keno said it all and right from my heart too.
We are the old ones that REALLY built YOUR site, guys!
And you, boyz, you counted on us: cheap. No, FREE advertising via us.
Meanwhile? Gosh, meanwhile I don’t even DARE to say a sentence in the forums.
I am telling that the site goes POOF when I try to edit the traits!! And you WARN me???
Mr. Director of Happiness for the forum… hm. No more comment from my site for you.
The forum is there for help, kindness, yes, also personal stuff (in the right place) – but what’s going on NOW… is ridiculous and childish.
You know me, right? I say it as it is. Sorry!
This is a Kindergarten. I am so sad! I promoted my heart, soul and the HELL out of YOU, guys!!
Please, don’t treat us ‘old ones’ (I am speaking for …yes, the ‘old ones’) like dirt. WE built your place.
Bless ya, may Bonanza survive and please, don’t backstab us anymore, if possible.

Sorry, I did not go into the details about which changes are hurting our business because this blog is about the forums. So, that’s what I discussed and I did offer some suggestions for improvement.

However, if you want other suggestions about how to better serve sellers and OUR customers, here are a few:

• Put our business names/user IDs back in our listing URLs so we can market our own wares across the internet rather than solely relying on anyone else to do it. We need to have ownership of our own listings in order to do so.
• Do away with any control that hinders us from serving our own customers properly. For example, forcing us to send emails to buyers when we enter tracking info. Sometimes things can’t be shipped immediately, but we’re forced to enter something in that field in order to keep our ratings from painting the wrong picture. When you’re sending an email to a buyer that says it’s been shipped when it hasn’t, it only causes serious problems. Another example would be forcing us to respond to every single bmail received from a customer to save the response time rating from painting the wrong picture. If possible, give us the option to combine the multiple bmails into one. Quite frankly, I feel the ratings should be done away with altogether because there are too many instances where they could paint the wrong picture.
• Either post “Get it by” dates that agree with what the carrier states on their site rather than adding excessive amounts of time to it, making customers think it will take forever to get their item, or do away with them altogether. Forcing us to use workarounds to avoid this problem only makes more work for sellers; especially those who prefer to use calculated shipping rather than dealing with the tedious flat rate or even free shipping process (been there, done that).
• Fix long-standing issues/glitches that hinder our businesses. For example, the SEO tool in batch edit needs to show ALL attributes for each item so errors can easily be fixed so Google will approve our feeds. Another example is the traits — they shouldn’t disappear at all, ever, for any reason. Once we’ve done the work, we shouldn’t have to redo it, especially not over and over. We shouldn’t have to worry about our hard work being undone.
• Allow traits and categories to be more specific. Doing away with specific categories makes the shopping experience a lot more tedious, both in Bonz search and our booths. Also, limiting us to traits that aren’t all inclusive doesn’t help matters any.
• Stop giving customers the option to go elsewhere to shop and certainly don’t post ads that compete with ours. I’m not sure why anyone would think that doing so would encourage a customer to return to Bonz. Right now, categories and traits are all messed up, so Bonz search isn’t even displaying MANY items found right here on Bonz. As a result, Amazon listings are taking precedence and they certainly don’t need any help competing with us. Plus, sellers of truly unique items shouldn’t be punished for having unique wares to sell.

• Advertise! LOL All of these pay-per-click ads have been placed in various spots that compete with Bonz listings in order to raise funds for advertising. Yet, we have still to see any form of advertising being done. So, sales keep dropping even for many of your best sellers and no amount of self-advertising or use of social media seems to be helping to counteract the affects of the unfair competition.

There are other suggestions I could make, but those are among the biggies.

Bill…you said “I feel this conversation losing some usefulness. I’d like to discuss constructive ways to improve, as well as ways to make the forums useful.”

After reading everyone’s comments I think there are actually some good ideas and points in the posts above. If you were to copy and paste just the specific ideas and points themselves onto a clean slate..it might be a good checklist to start with and expand upon.

I like to believe that much of the growth we’ve seen here has come as a result of having the forums.

Our sellers have used them to brainstorm and discuss many things that effect our businesses, both good and bad. The other forums, outside of the Sellers and Sales Boosting Forums are for casual conversations that don’t really pertain to business needs, but they are no less valuable. As was mentioned, the Sellers Forum should be password accessible only and visible only to those who have booths here. A place to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly, all in the interest of being able to be productive and prosperous here.

As it is now, and really as it has been, it’s been the sellers who have been marketing this site. Yes, you create the tools and the system, but we provide the oil that keeps this engine running.

Almost all of the features implemented in the first three years have been great, Talking about Bonz staying ahead of the curve, yep, this place was rocking when compared to what other sites offer. And in many ways, you still do.

But this past year has turned into a fiasco with the ratings, ads, and now being forced to compete with Amazon. If I wanted to compete with Amazon, I would go there to sell (and would actually be selling something). Some days, I log on and it seems as though Bonanza has been hacked and replaced with some other incognito organization.

So while change can be good, there is some change that is not. I know that as a manager, I always asked to be given the benefit of the doubt when implementing new policies and procedures, then if after a short period of time, the goal I was looking to achieve wasn’t coming about, I would retreat back to the original game plan and soon after attempt something else. Businesses are always being pressed to produce better results each year over the one before. And if you don’t try new things, you’ll never know if it can improve what you have to begin with. But it’s not always about saving money. Some changes create havoc and breed other maladies that can be even more damaging. And though you think this Amazon feature is going to improve the buying experience, remember, not only are we all sellers, but we are also buyers. We have to be in order to get what we need.

It’s all a big circle that is fueled by the sellers first being able to be productive. The speed bumps stop the motion and interfere with the wheel turning. Glitches, Inactive booths, and features that work AGAINST us instead of FOR us. All speed bumps that inhibit growth and sales.

Bonanza hasn’t even made a dent in the Online Marketplace as of late. We should be so much further along. Thousands of members putting out thousands of promotions each day and still, no one has heard of us. And at the same time, there are many new venues starting up that are biting at it’s heels. And unfortunately, many of the founding members no longer grace these halls. They were ignored, banned, and shut out without the benefit of offering constructive opinions and criticism that was taken seriously. This is not a game…this is our livelihoods.

So trying to stay ahead of the curve is great, as long as you’re on the inside track. I think many of us are feeling like we are lost and ran off the track with three out of four tires flattened and an empty tank of gas. Lately, I find myself being put in the position to explain to customers why negative influences are effecting our ability to sell here. Makes me look like a loser. And it costs me money when I have to cancel transactions for items I don’t have in stock, or communications that don’t reach them for one reason or another. Being forced to accept blame for things that are out of my control. I constantly worry above the mechanics of the transaction process more than what the customer thinks about the items they purchase from me. These glitches that occur are the most difficult part of selling here.

The forums are a vital part of this venue in my opinion. It has been a major spoke in the wheel that keeps this site interesting, appealing and rolling along. Just get rid of the tags and reporting ability. They do more harm than good.

I have really realized here recently why it is that I depend so much on the forums, why I have had to stay tied to the forums and it is because without them I would be lost at this point. I have needed the forums in order to understand new features and very much so for Google. I cannot imagine the forums closed for these reasons.

Do you remember when Amazon payments were added. If it were not for the different threads started to help each other, I and other would not have been able to figure it out….it was just way too confusing. Together we all figured it out. And Google, that is the same situation except it has always and will be an ongoing battle to understand. Much of the times when I post in the Google forums I may get one post to help or none. It would be awfully scary without the forums here and truly would hinder me as a seller. Much of what others have already posted I will not repeat, though I do feel in a round about way the same.

But when it comes to new features I’d rather get a heads up from Bonanza itself and how it is supposed to operate and at least that way I’m not going to be upset or frustrated in that respect when posting in the forums. I realize we cannot all be pleased all of the time with new features. I get that part and understand. But I can personally say that the lack of communication has been an issue for me when it comes to my spirits in the forums, not to mention road blocks that have been set up to no longer help me. For example, the side pictures on our listings on the right side.

I almost left Bonanza the other day. But thankfully my items stayed up on reserve for some reason. Deep down I do not want to leave. I still believe in Bonanza and feel we are far ahead of the rest, so I’m just hoping maybe MGMT can try to understand what is partially going on with the forums in the way of the negativity that is being felt. I do appreciate you Bill and Mark and this opportunity that you have given us to sell on. I’m very thankful for that.

Bill said: “The question then remains how we can keep moving forward, improving our experience, without being paralyzed by fear and overanalysis. And how can we bring our sellers along for that ride, communicating as clearly and often as possible?”

I think Marianna’s (momspennies) idea to have the forums as being password accessible is an excellent idea. People who do post in there after all should be ones who have a vital interest on truly being there to help each other.

This blog was crafted to allow users to comment about the future of the forums going forward and has turned into something quite different.
I will agree that much of the negativity in the forums is caused by users being blindsided by new features, with no directions as to how to use, why implemented and how they will effect business. Perhaps Bonanza can develop a team of users to test and discuss new features with prior to implementation, thus being able to garner feedback and necessary changes prior to being implemented. The features team would be available during and after implementation to answer questions from members in the forum about the hows and whys of the new feature and able to send feedback to Bonanza. There could be a forum entitled new features for this purpose.
I for one have been appalled at some the vicious personal attacks I have seen both against Bonanza management and users over the last several months. Funding and keeping a business thriving in this economy today is difficult. Most internet businesses do not survive more than a year or two. 50% of all businesses fail in the first 5 years. If Bonanza needs to create additional revenue streams to fund & grow their business so be it. We as users need to focus on our businesses and how to adjust to an ever changing internet shopping market, where and how to market and sell our product.

Bill said:
“The question then remains how we can keep moving forward, improving our experience, without being paralyzed by fear and overanalysis. And how can we bring our sellers along for that ride, communicating as clearly and often as possible?”

This whole topic regarding the forums was generated, it seems, by discussion regarding changes on the forums that degenerated into negative comments about the site rather than providing constructive ways in which problems could be addressed.

I can only speak from my own experience with Bonanza. I’ve been a member for a little over a year, and have seen my business grow steadily, with a marked increase when I opted in to the Google Shopping advertising option. Most of that growth has withstood the changes that have been made to the site, of which I agree with some, and have questions about others.

When I’ve found my business impacted negatively by changes, or when I’ve had questions/problems/seen glitches as a result of changes that have been made, I’ve mostly opted to email support (management) about it rather than airing the problem on the forums.

Why?

First, I’ve found that many of the discussions tend to devolve into site-bashing in which I don’t want to participate.

Second, as someone who has sold on the internet for a long time, I’m acutely aware that what we say online is NOT private, that search engine bots pick up what is said in the forums as well as our listings, and that what we say in frustration can be carried forward on the internet in a way that impacts the site, and therefore our businesses, in a way that is far from helpful.

When I have contacted support I have always gotten courteous, to-the-point, timely answers. I have never gotten the kind of boiler-plate that another, large, established site is known for. Have all of my problems been solved instantaneously? No. Have I had to go back and for numerous times in order to get any kind of a resolution? Sometimes. But what I value is that the management here is accessible, approachable, willing to listen to me as a seller, and most times willing and able to adjust things on their end to address a problem on my end. When I was selling on that 800-lb gorilla site, that literally NEVER happened!

NOW: I do see ways the communication process could be improved/enhanced.

1) Include a topic in the forums called “Announcements” where changes are announced and discussed constructively by all parties…BEFORE they occur.

2) Send emails to all buyers about a week before changes occur, announcing and explaining the changes.

In both of those ways, we would not be surprised by the changes, would have a way to know about them before they happen and adjust our businesses if necessary, and have a way to communicate our concerns to management so that the changes could be tweaked, if necessary, BEFORE they occur.

In terms of the tone on the forums, I would urge people to think before they speak about how someone who has no knowledge of Bonanza might react to what we’re saying.

I looked long and hard for an alternative site to the one that so many of us left. I found sites that were nice, but had absolutely no traffic. I found sites that never changed, no matter what, and therefore did not keep pace technologically with other sites. I found sites where there was virtually NO way to contact management with a problem. Etc., etc.

Then I found Bonanza. I found a site that works for me, but, equally important, I found a site where management and members were working together to build a viable, vibrant site, rather than acting as if they were opponents.

I value Bonanza highly, and I value that tone of a joint purpose, helpfulness, and friendliness. Now, I think, Bill is asking us all to work together to bring that back.

It’s a goal, I would think, upon which all of us could agree.

@lowerwholesale,
You said “This whole topic regarding the forums was generated, it seems, by discussion regarding changes on the forums that degenerated into negative comments about the site rather than providing constructive ways in which problems could be addressed.”

I disagree. What many of us are stateing is our opinions of why the forums have turned negative.

We’re trying to point out with examples why we feel the forums have taken on the tone they have. We keep asking mgmt to define changes and give us examples. That’s what we are doing here. If we didn’t spell out what’s eating at us, replies to this blog would be wordings such as ‘forums are bad’, ‘forums are great’, ‘get rid of them’, ‘leave them alone’, etc. That would be vague and not tell them anything.

They need to know why we’re upset. This is the only place we can do that.

Here is a perfect example : When I’ve found my business impacted negatively by changes, or when I’ve had questions/problems/seen glitches as a result of changes that have been made, I’ve mostly opted to email support (management) about it rather than airing the problem on the forums." While that is all great, you are only one person necessitating answers from management. Now add in a few thousand other people all wanting the same answer and now management has to take the time to answer you all privately. Information, sharing and helping each other what the forums were originally like and for the most part have remained. The forums these days are NOTHING like they used to be when it was bad. The ONLY negative threads have been resultant of lack of communication. Have you seen negative threads otherwise? I haven’t.

What is the common denominator demonstrated by everyone’s post here….Lack of communication.

Move forward with your enhancements; move as fast as you want. However, stop and tell us:
A. What they are?
B. How it will or will not affect our business. Every change has an effect be real about it.
C. How does it work?
D. If we do not fully understand something, address those concerns instead of deleting forum post.

I have to agree with CollectibleCorner , Judy’s knowledge is under used and wasted in the backend. You have a seasoned seller that can help you explain the new changes & help us understand them and what they mean to our business.
How you go about doing it is up to you it could be via the blog or a seller’s only forum that is strictly for new changes that only active users can have access to. Address all concerns because every concern is a valid one.

Yes, many of those you’re hearing a lot more detail from are those who have been here for a long time. We have seen the ups and downs and how this site has changed into something far from what we all envisioned it would become. We remember how management used to be more communicative and considerate of sellers when thinking of and implementing changes.

We’re not trying to bash anyone. We just know how things have changed and not for the better. We’re simply trying to voice those concerns, hoping that we’ll be heard this time rather than ignored as has been happening for quite some time now. Particularly since they started bombarding us with changes that only seemed to hurt business rather than help.

I, too, have approached management privately and have yet to receive a response regarding any of my concerns. If I do get a response, it’s a canned one that basically equates to a brush off that does nothing to resolve anything. Instead, I come to this blog to find that we’re being considered a bunch of negative whiners and that they’re considering a drastic change to the forums to help silence the things they don’t want to hear.

It is not our fault that things have taken place as they have. It’s been management’s lack of proper communication and consideration for its seller base that has resulted in so many people being upset. This is not how Bonanza used to be and many have left, are considering leaving, or putting their focus elsewhere because they do feel slighted after so many years of being loyal supporters.

We have made many attempts to communicate to them our concerns and offered many constructive suggestions only to be ignored and/or silenced in some way because it doesn’t agree with what they seem to want to do no matter what we think or how it affects us. That has only resulted in even more frustration for sellers.

Like I said, for many of us, this is our livelihoods and only source of income. If someone is doing well here, by whatever their standards are, then that’s great. However, when you’ve spent so much time, money and effort to make it work here so you can put food on the table only to find things getting worse with time, and to no fault of your own, it is very upsetting. Add to that the fact that management seemingly doesn’t care anymore about those who helped build this place, it is heartbreaking.

So, a little consideration and understanding is all we’re asking. Rather than call us negative and look for a way to silence what you perceive as negative, why not listen to what we’ve been trying to tell you all along? Ignoring us and calling us negative only breeds negativity and doesn’t resolve anything. Own up to it and work with us instead of against us.

@Lowerwholesale…You’re not understanding that we’ve been trying to make that effort to find common solutions all along. It has been management’s failure to communicate properly and even ignore what we’ve been saying that has resulted in this problem. If our many posts would not have been deleted, despite being civil discussions, then there would be more evidence of that in the forums.

Well, let’s hope we’re heard this time so we don’t have to have this conversation again.

Now we’re talking! Much more good details and specifics in the comments since my post last night… even if it has taken me the better part of an hour to read through the huge volume of meaty comments we’ve gotten here.

Between these ideas and the ones we’re getting via the survey, I can increasingly see patterns in what is being sought. Communication is obviously one of them. Having the forums available as a means to get clarity on new features is another. The Judy forum is certainly an interesting idea.

Getting direct and useful feedback like this means that we can work directly toward a compromise that improves the Bonanza experience for all while still letting us move fast. Realistically speaking, I don’t think Bonanza is ever going to be a site where we can announce every change in advance and solicit feedback on it — it would slow our progress to a crawl if we had to build consensus on everything we launched. But there’s still a lot of opportunity to work toward announcing the critical changes in advance. And fleshing out something like the changelist to be a more comprehensive daily list of what’s new (which is usually a lot).

Of course, this still doesn’t quite resolve the question on how to make the forums a consistently positive and useful tool. Or how to moderate them without the old “gestapo” label being applied to us. Even with improved communication (and even if we opened select forums only to sellers), the forums can still devolve into emotional negativity, and/or forming gangs. It begs the question of whether there is an opportunity to use the forums to coordinate enough positive, Bonanza-promoting activities to offset the inevitable trolls that will use the forums for their nefarious purposes…

at “gestapo”. I just wanted to add that the current set up for monitoring the forums is lacking in human attention. Right now, it’s basically left up to the trolls and Otto, so innocent people and civil, productive discussions are suffering.

I know you guys are busy enough as it is, but I don’t know what else to suggest other than having a human being review tags and reports before allowing an action to be taken against an individual or an entire thread. I really think that would help weed out the problem people while keeping the positive, helpful stuff available.

Also, I’ve suggested this in the distant past, but the help index really needs to be updated. I know many changes have taken place and will continue to do so, but there are many topics that should be covered. This might indirectly help keep the forums positive. For example, we could just point to a help page to answer someone’s question rather than starting what could become a negative dialogue on the subject. I don’t know, but it’s a thought.

Bill it seems to me that the “inevitable trolls” only come out when we have changes that are not explained. I have went back thru some forum threads and the forums seem to go in a negative direction when we dont understand something or we have to go looking for answers on why something is not working or why something new is showing and we cant figure out how to do something. If you contain a situation seems it would help stop the fires, or at least put a damper on them by communicating with us. This communication problem came up over a year ago and we were told at that time that you all would “try” to keep us in the loop of changes and problems. To me this is the problem with all the negativity in the forums right now. I see 4 threads right now that are close to going in that direction because I cant find anything on your help menu, nor have I seen support take a stand on these threads. Even if we may not like every change at least tell us what is going on. Those who do not like the change or like when you address an issue we post in the forum at least we know and we can either like it or ignore it..lol but at least it will stop the “trolls” from guessing, and I can be a troll myself when left in the dark

The Changelist needs redoing because it only serves as a list of thing you Bonanza worked on but fails to communicate to us sellers what these changes are and what they mean to us.

Ex.
4/22
Forward Google Shopping errors to sellers
Center credentials in footer
Improve clarity of product reviews page

Okay I know you did some work yesterday but what does it mean?

“Forward Google Shopping errors to sellers”:

What errors? Where will we see them? Is there a specific error we need to be aware of? You know what it means because you worked on it. However, we are left with a meaningless list and often having to figure it out on our own.

Then we have:

“Center credentials in footer”
Do we really need to know that you centered something in the footer?

Yup the changelist needs changing to better communicate important changes that will have an effect on us sellers be it positive or negative.

I took time to read all this before taking the survey and will be interested now in what the survey asks! I agree with many things I read here and you should clearly see the passion with which people responded (saying it was “losing its’ usefulness” was an excellent example of why people are not happy!)- your serious sellers really care about this site and its’ forward movement. Hard to attain when each “improvement” seems to take us 2 steps backwards- very frustrating. But I feel we must be allowed to vent our frustrations and not be censored. Momspennies is right, many of us are truly long time business people and don’t like to be brushed off. We know what we want and need to be successful- you should listen better. We have worked long and hard only to be “surprised” with something new frequently and with no notice. I see a lot of improvements but also some negatives (like Amazon comparisons!!). Want to keep selling here, if I ever sell anything again, that is, and hope that this can of worms you have opened here has a positive end result for Bonz and sellers. Good move to give us a chance to voice, don’t impose limitations on it now that you’ve asked for it. Happy selling everyone :-)

If there are a few threads surfacing where the need is seen to communicate, a blog is not a bad idea (or however you want to do it). Take the category changes, for example, and the glitches when it came to attributes that went along with that. To be honest there have now been several threads started in reference to that and we’re only guessing and wondering when we’re gonna here an announcement like we were told. I was checking the blog everyday hoping for someone to lead me in the right direction with that and instead I started to find myself showing frustration in the forums because I was at a loss.

I did not mean to bring up the past by bringing up eBay and how it used to go in the forums with that….but situations can start off as seeds and that was just one situation I also wanted to use that as an example as to what I had seen posted in another site’s forums. It was helpful.

Anyways, outside of what I talked about, I know I have never been perfect in the forums, so I cannot say it is always roses with me. No one is perfect, so we, too, can take responsibility for how things have gone at times also. People need rules or things would go nuts. JMO.

Now I’m gonna take the survey.

There are a number of us, including me, who sell on more than one venue. For myself, I find that my time is best spent if I expend most of my effort on one site, but a presence on other sites certainly adds to our visibility on the internet in general.

I’ve chosen to expend most of my energy on Bonanza for several reasons.

First, my sales have been better here, consistently, than on any other site I’ve found other than the 800-lb gorilla. Recently they’ve been slow, partially I believe because it’s tax time, but also because not all the kinks have been worked out of recent changes on the site. I look forward to their becoming kink-less…:))

Second, I can actually make a profit here – the fees are reasonable and I’m not paying on both ends (in other words, I only pay if I sell something). In other words, I get a better return on my money here than anywhere else I’ve found.

Third, I find it possible to work with support (management) if I do have a problem for which I can’t, on my own, find a work-around.

Fourth, even with the recent rise in emotions on the forums, I’ve found a great bunch of people who support each other, realizing that success is a joint effort.

@purpleiris

I really appreciate your sentiments in your last post. We all get to feeling “overworked and underpaid” at times, and it’s easy to let our personal circumstances spill over into our professional interactions and vice versa – not necessarily recommended, but certainly human!

I’m also glad that you’ve chosen to list here again.

I firmly believe that there is no problem for which we can’t find a solution if we put aside our individual agendas and work together constructively and creatively.

The fact that Bill posted this blog and has invested his time and energy in really listening, and responding to, people’s concerns means to me that, going forward, communication will improve and, hopefully, high emotions will recede a bit.

And I certainly agree that mutual respect should be paramount. None of us have all the answers, but working together we should be able to find them!

@Nellie…Not sure who that was directed at, but for someone who doesn’t like to complain, according to your own words, I find your statement rather uncalled for. We’re simply trying to work towards a resolution and understanding each others’ pain is a part of that.

I mean, how do you go from…

“I will also do the survey! I agree that the forums should be kept positive. Everytime I see a new one started bashing Bonanza, I cringe. I don’t always like everything I see, but I do not like to complain. I do it in email not bmail and not the forums. Keep it clean everyone! Thanks Bill!!!”

…to…

“A few just keep saying the same thing over and over again! You said your piece! Peace please!”

That has to be the most negative and provocative thing I’ve seen posted here. It certainly does not lend to an amicable path to healing any wounds. For someone who doesn’t like to complain, I would think you would agree.

I mentioned no names Purple Iris! And it was not a negative statement. Some people talk things to death, all I was getting at.

PowerSellersUnite

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I feel you should send the survey to all members of Bonanza if you want a true feedback on the forum issues. After reading this blog, I’ve changed my mind on the forum issue. I don’t feel at this time it is a good business pracitice to leave the forums open, except for help on using the site. Even posts in different forum topics are met with derogatory
innuendos as here within this blog. With the heat in here at about 212 it might be something to do, just until everything cools down.

Gee whiz…the emotional temperature was just getting lower and now it’s rising again!

Can’t we all just take a deep breath and think for 60 second or so before we speak (or write)?

Just for information purposes, here’s the latest example of what we say here not being kept here:

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y13/m04/i24/s04

I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that in this instance it wasn’t Bill who reached out to eCommerceBytes!

I would really love to see added to the forum, a special board to report problems. Then have who ever handles those problems, post to that board what has been done. Fixed, Looking into it, etc….. Maybe that would stop some of the negativity on the boards. Where management is working with the sellers to get problems solved.

A tad off topic but can you advise if the work on Categories, etc is complete? Want to make corrections..thanks much